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[News] S.L.U.G. October 19 Meeting Notes

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Harry Catharell
MaJic Solutions Limited - FileMaker Partner
FileMaker EXCELLENCE AWARD WINNERS - DevCon 2004

Synopsis of the User Group meeting which took place in London on 19th October 2004

Attendees :
Harry Catharell - MaJic Solutions Limited
Christian Batchelor - Batchelor Associates
Graham Greensall - Worxinfo
Chris Michael - hhm
Rafi Galibov - Positronic Solutions

As this was the first meeting of the User Group there was a fairly relaxed format which allowed us all to get to know each other and thence to bring up what we considered to be valid discussion points. The whole evening became an open forum and as a small group we could allow the conversations to move in whichever direction they took. The following is a distilled version of the items which reared their heads and so suffers a little from being merely bullet points.....

Issues regarding calculations and updating from portal/tab based data

  • Import of very large datasets created very large maintenance issues relating to the update of stored/unstored calculations
  • Much of this seems to revolve around Servoy foibles in how it treats related data which needs to be aggregated
  • Servoy has a propensity for needing to 'see' all related records in order to update the aggregate values (basic invoice/line item scenario)
  • This may be related to earlier version being employed and we are waiting for further feedback on whether an update will cure the behaviour
Use of native SQL queries v. Servoy implementation (e.g. Finds)
  • It was mooted that there could be advantages in using Servoy to compile native SQL queries instead of relying solely upon those generated by Servoy
  • It was understood by all that this was a powerful tool when used appropriately (e.g. Join & Union queries)
Use of HTML formatted datasets in opposition to list form types
  • As a related point to 'roll-your-own' SQL queries we discussed the handling of the datasets returned via these more complex statements
  • A process was briefly showcased using a method to embed the dataset within HTML in order to handle the display of the results
  • This was very fast, very nicely presented and still allowed clickable links to be used!
Deployment - easy or difficult?
  • A new product brings with it relative inexperience at handling it coupled with new product operational issues - OK, BUGS !!!
  • There were generally positive experiences from those who had deployed multi user systems
  • As a learning experience there were definitely some gotchas
  • There was great concern regarding the client memory cache/leaks as users could find clients grinding to a halt over long processes
  • All were aware that there have been threads on the forum about this (specifically relating to looping processes like mail shots !)
FM7 - is it a contender ?
  • There was much speculation about FM v. Servoy and where each product sat in the scheme of things
  • There is no doubt in the minds of the attendees that Servoy is targeting current FM user base in order to convert them
  • This is NOT considered a bad thing
  • The consensus was that generally, if you take 1000 FM 'Developers' then there would only be around 50 of them who would be capable of making the move!
  • There is a tangible difference between the overall skillsets required for FM and Servoy - FM is still essentially very forgiving if you screw things up!
  • The jury is currently out on how the remaining 950 FM 'Developers' will take to FM7's new paradigm!
Servoy from two perspectives - the web angle and the LAN database angle.
  • There was a good cross-section of opinion provided by attendees
  • One strong point made was that Servoy can be displaced by a web based solution using a good scripting language to talk to the database
  • Take for example PHP used with MySQL
  • These are both mature, open-source products with long and successful track records
  • The advantage being that you create something where there is no need for a 'client' at all and deployment becomes even easier than with Servoy!
  • Generally, Servoy has the better RAD environment whereas GUI tools for PHP are few, however you can build up code libraries with PHP and reuse them!
  • LAN based points were made about having the speed and flexibility to develop a solution which is good for the LAN/WAN scenario
  • The LAN solution could then easily be ported to run in conjunction with web services etc to provide an appropriate access method for the client
  • Ultimately the developer skillsets teamed with the project requirements would drive the makeup of the solution provided
FINAL CONCLUSIONS
  • We all probably got something slightly different from the meeting - but primarily we all gained from the various inputs of all attendees.
  • It was a good opportunity to air views on real world problems and benefits of using Servoy.
  • There is a feeling of being overawed by the volume of fixes and enhancements that have taken place over the last year alone.
  • The Servoy team have not only produced a great application and development tool but have backed this up with superb support and by being virtually reactive when it comes to addressing issues and the release of new versions to compensate.
  • It is felt very strongly that there now needs to be some form of balance kept within the product.
  • Everybody is aware that there is a huge list of feature requests compiled somewhere in an area of hyperspace monitored and controlled by Servoy.
  • We are all willing to bet big money that the majority of these requests would not only be sanctioned by us all but that we would consider the donation a major organ to get at least one tenth of them NOW!
  • However, they are "requests" and as part of a consolidation period it is felt that it would be better to concentrate on making Servoy completely stable in its current version and put off delivery of new features until we reach that point.

This essentially means concentrating solely on what are outstanding issues relating specifically to v2.1 and giving developers a couple of key benefits :

  1. A solid and reliable product to go out and use to change the world.
  2. An opportunity for developers themselves to also consolidate and learn about all the existing functionality which has been added over the past several months, a fair proportion of which has had to be disregarded due to there being so much of it!

There is no doubt in what a fantastic product Servoy is and what a joy it is to work with. Servoy has come a hell of a long way in a relatively short time and we have no doubt that it will continue on this positive path forward and we are all looking forward to the next meeting of the unfortunately named "S.L.U.G." (Dave adds: "Servoy London Users Group." Gotta love it!)

Regards
Harry Catharell